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#1 2017-07-08 15:00:17

greatpilsudski
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3yo sprint form

looks a strong buch ,how impressive was battaash in breaking the course record at sandown?

i may be wrong but i dont think any 3yos took on older horses in any british group race till royal ascot, but we have had 2 impressive wins from them in beating older horses in since the kings stand.

up to carravaggio and harry angel now to keep up the good record next week,particulary over the 6f trip.

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#2 2017-07-15 21:09:41

greatpilsudski
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Re: 3yo sprint form

3yos keeing up the good record in the july cup 


one thing i didnt hear mentioned today or in the build up by anyone on the racing channels was carravaggios time in the commenwealth,1.5 secs slower than the golden jubilee ,albeit on a different day but he had a good pace to clock a good time.


thats offically 6l ,8l if you use the old scale,quite a difference even taking into accout it may of bee slightly fast going on the saturday comapred to friday.


harrys angel arguably as enough toe to go 5f so battash and lady aurelia would be a interesting contest in the nunthorpe,although he there talking the haydock sprint cup.

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#3 2017-07-16 16:02:52

certainty
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Re: 3yo sprint form

greatpilsudski wrote:


3yos keeing up the good record in the july cup 


one thing i didnt hear mentioned today or in the build up by anyone on the racing channels was carravaggios time in the commenwealth,1.5 secs slower than the golden jubilee ,albeit on a different day but he had a good pace to clock a good time.


thats offically 6l ,8l if you use the old scale,quite a difference even taking into accout it may of bee slightly fast going on the saturday comapred to friday.


harrys angel arguably as enough toe to go 5f so battash and lady aurelia would be a interesting contest in the nunthorpe,although he there talking the haydock sprint cup.
Yeah, can't see them taking on Lady Aurelia this year although I Carravagio has an entry for the Nunthorpe. Wonder what Godolphin will do with Blue Point now they have Harry Angel for the 6f races ? In another year he could have been the top 3yo sprinter so hope they find some good races for him.

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#4 2017-07-16 21:38:41

pk75
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Re: 3yo sprint form

greatpilsudski wrote:


looks a strong buch ,how impressive was battaash in breaking the course record at sandown?

i may be wrong but i dont think any 3yos took on older horses in any british group race till royal ascot, but we have had 2 impressive wins from them in beating older horses in since the kings stand.

up to carravaggio and harry angel now to keep up the good record next week,particulary over the 6f trip



----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
.Without doubt one of the best innovations the bha has done in recent times is bringing in championship grade sprint races for 3yold's only.. Prior all top 3yolds would be aimed at the Guineas, and if they didnt see out the trip, many got lost having to race against hardened older sprinters,or retired to stud, which created easy pickings for horses from the likes of Australia to come over and exploit our weakness in the sprint division..
Since inaugural Commonwealth Cup in 2015 tho British sprinters have started fighting back with the likes of Muhaarar Limato & now as mentioned above Caravaggio Harry Angel & Blue Point..  No doubt we will now continue to produce top drawer 3yold sprinters:)


Regarding Caravaggio, i hope they step him up in trip..  Think he would take the world of beating if rocking up in the 7f Prix Foret on Arc weekend..And also think he would be a huge player if targeted for the Breeders Cup Mile.  
Considering how strongly he finished off races in the Coventry & Commonwealth Cup over the stiff 6F track that is Ascot, these two races would be ideal for him imo..

Last edited by pk75 (2017-07-16 21:40:39)

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#5 2017-07-17 13:20:31

greatpilsudski
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Re: 3yo sprint form

My original method of picking horses I used to base it on speed figures ,not so much now ,but I couldn't help notice his commonwealth time wasn't exactly great.

Conditions were faster on the Saturday but comparing his time with other races on the Friday and to a wider extent the other days ,he just didn't impress considering he had a good pace to help him.

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#6 2017-07-17 13:24:41

certainty
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Re: 3yo sprint form

Not a 3yo but worth mentioning something I read on Timeform today which is that in Saturday's July Cup Brando ran the final 3f in the fastest time ever recorded by Timeform at that track which is quite something. He's now been placed twice in Group 1's at big prices and is still available at double figures for both the 5f Group 2 at Goodwood (where presumably Battaash is headed) and the Nunthorpe. Dropped back to 5f he should certainly be up to winning a Group 2 and maybe a weaker Group 1.

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#7 2017-07-22 15:49:09

greatpilsudski
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Re: 3yo sprint form

i didnt know there was a newcastle group 3 sprint at the begginning of the month but there was only 1 3yo in the race and he won at 8-1 by koropick


there was also a york group 3 sprint for fillies/mares and mystic dawn won leading home a 3yo 1-2-3 agaisnt 4yo's.


today newbury hosted a group 3 sprint with three 3yos in it but they finally they gave there elders a chance on the soft ground but perfect angel came 2nd at 20-1,ran harry angel to a 2.5l 2nd in the mill reef last year on gdsf.


i make that 5-1 to 3yos in group race sprints so far this season.

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#8 2017-07-23 10:53:53

certainty
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Re: 3yo sprint form

greatpilsudski wrote:


i didnt know there was a newcastle group 3 sprint at the begginning of the month but there was only 1 3yo in the race and he won at 8-1 by koropick


there was also a york group 3 sprint for fillies/mares and mystic dawn won leading home a 3yo 1-2-3 agaisnt 4yo's.


today newbury hosted a group 3 sprint with three 3yos in it but they finally they gave there elders a chance on the soft ground but perfect angel came 2nd at 20-1,ran harry angel to a 2.5l 2nd in the mill reef last year on gdsf.


i make that 5-1 to 3yos in group race sprints so far this season.
Good stats and no shame losing to Magical Memory in that race yesterday, he's a Group 1 horse at his best.

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#9 2017-08-03 21:18:56

greatpilsudski
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Re: 3yo sprint form

battaash,ardad,kyllang rock and yalta represent the 3yos in the king george group 2 sprint


the only loss by a 3yo in a group race sprint this season came when it was soft ground 


battaash broke course record at sandown and this soft ground as to be a mjor concern and i cant really fancy him.hes drawn 1 and maybe he can get over to the far rail but it was fresh ground there today as the rails were moved back in but tomorrow it wont be fresh ground and i think they will all come centre anyway.


ardad at the odds with soft ground form would be a better altetnative,ive read somewhere else on here 1 or 2 fancy his chances and i think he shaped well in the battash race lto on ground too fast for him.



kyllang rock as also got soft ground form.just needs to get over that poor run lto,fast ground with first time cheekpieces are obvious reasons.no headgear and softer ground should see a better run.


yalta is 2 from 2 here and won a group 3 here after putting a poor previous run behind him.you can argue he likes downhill tracks and dislikes stiff tracks like his last 3 runs although soft ground probably a problem.


i thought id be leaning towards ardad but the other 2 as well make appeal at 33-1 and 40-1 but kyllang rock i like with ardad.

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#10 2017-08-04 15:43:59

skysthelimit
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Re: 3yo sprint form

Great post

Battash looks a real machine

great thread  wink.gif

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#11 2017-08-04 16:06:26

certainty
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Re: 3yo sprint form

Another good week for the 3yo's at Goodwood, impressive wins by Battash, Stradivarius and Winter following on Enable's demolition job last week.

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#12 2017-08-04 19:56:08

greatpilsudski
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Re: 3yo sprint form

Can't remember a season where 3yo sprinters are doing so well and the nunthorpe looks a certainty he or Lady Aurelia will take that.

In contrast middle distance colts look average ,is something going on by the breeders that as made this happen? Did they prepare for the Commonwealth cup when it was announced or by running our 3yos in the guineas when that clearly aren't bred for it before the Commonwealth cup came along ruin them early on and made them less competitive when they finally returned to sprinting later on in the season?

Caravaggio runs in France on Sunday,he is the one though im least convinced about ,I can't see no reason why he couldn't clock a faster time at Ascot.

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#13 2017-08-04 21:01:22

certainty
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Re: 3yo sprint form

greatpilsudski wrote:


Can't remember a season where 3yo sprinters are doing so well and the nunthorpe looks a certainty he or Lady Aurelia will take that.


In contrast middle distance colts look average ,is something going on by the breeders that as made this happen? Did they prepare for the Commonwealth cup when it was announced or by running our 3yos in the guineas when that clearly aren't bred for it before the Commonwealth cup came along ruin them early on and made them less competitive when they finally returned to sprinting later on in the season?


Caravaggio runs in France on Sunday,he is the one though im least convinced about ,I can't see no reason why he couldn't clock a faster time at Ascot.
Agree with you about Carravaggio on Sunday. Will be backing Signs of Blessing and Brando ew in the Prix Gheest. Brando bear the O'Brien horse fair and square at Newmarket and clocked some very impressive sectional times (fastest final 3f ever recorded over c & d) yet he's 10/1 here, have to get stuck into that as long as ground is ok.

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#14 2017-08-04 23:26:57

pk75
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Re: 3yo sprint form

certainty wrote:


greatpilsudski wrote:


Can't remember a season where 3yo sprinters are doing so well and the nunthorpe looks a certainty he or Lady Aurelia will take that.



In contrast middle distance colts look average ,is something going on by the breeders that as made this happen? Did they prepare for the Commonwealth cup when it was announced or by running our 3yos in the guineas when that clearly aren't bred for it before the Commonwealth cup came along ruin them early on and made them less competitive when they finally returned to sprinting later on in the season?



Caravaggio runs in France on Sunday,he is the one though im least convinced about ,I can't see no reason why he couldn't clock a faster time at Ascot.
Agree with you about Carravaggio on Sunday. Will be backing Signs of Blessing and Brando ew in the Prix Gheest. Brando bear the O'Brien horse fair and square at Newmarket and clocked some very impressive sectional times (fastest final 3f ever recorded over c & d) yet he's 10/1 here, have to get stuck into that as long as ground is ok.
To me Caravaggio is a good thing on Sunday.. Everything happened to fast for him lto on Newmarket's July Course, where the average time is 2 seconds faster than that at Ascot (1m.10.4--1m.12.4)
 The way Caravaggio finished off both those races screams of a horse wanting further, which he will get tomorrow (Deauville 6.5f average time 1m.16sec)  11/10 Hills NAP

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#15 2017-08-05 09:04:24

certainty
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Re: 3yo sprint form

pk75 wrote:


certainty wrote:


greatpilsudski wrote:


Can't remember a season where 3yo sprinters are doing so well and the nunthorpe looks a certainty he or Lady Aurelia will take that.




In contrast middle distance colts look average ,is something going on by the breeders that as made this happen? Did they prepare for the Commonwealth cup when it was announced or by running our 3yos in the guineas when that clearly aren't bred for it before the Commonwealth cup came along ruin them early on and made them less competitive when they finally returned to sprinting later on in the season?




Caravaggio runs in France on Sunday,he is the one though im least convinced about ,I can't see no reason why he couldn't clock a faster time at Ascot.
Agree with you about Carravaggio on Sunday. Will be backing Signs of Blessing and Brando ew in the Prix Gheest. Brando bear the O'Brien horse fair and square at Newmarket and clocked some very impressive sectional times (fastest final 3f ever recorded over c & d) yet he's 10/1 here, have to get stuck into that as long as ground is ok.
To me Caravaggio is a good thing on Sunday.. Everything happened to fast for him lto on Newmarket's July Course, where the average time is 2 seconds faster than that at Ascot (1m.10.4--1m.12.4)
 The way Caravaggio finished off both those races screams of a horse wanting further, which he will get tomorrow (Deauville 6.5f average time 1m.16sec)  11/10 Hills NAP
Good luck if you're backing pk. 3 yo's have an ok record in the Prix Gheest, nothing special, most came into race on back of a win and O'Brien hasn't won it since 2001 although no idea how many runners he's had. One strong stat for the race is that winners had won beyond 6f before which suits last year's winner Signs of Blessing (and there have been two multiple winners recently) and also The Right Man who looks a big price is ground is on soft side.

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#16 2017-08-06 21:29:23

certainty
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Re: 3yo sprint form

pk75 wrote:


certainty wrote:


greatpilsudski wrote:


Can't remember a season where 3yo sprinters are doing so well and the nunthorpe looks a certainty he or Lady Aurelia will take that.




In contrast middle distance colts look average ,is something going on by the breeders that as made this happen? Did they prepare for the Commonwealth cup when it was announced or by running our 3yos in the guineas when that clearly aren't bred for it before the Commonwealth cup came along ruin them early on and made them less competitive when they finally returned to sprinting later on in the season?




Caravaggio runs in France on Sunday,he is the one though im least convinced about ,I can't see no reason why he couldn't clock a faster time at Ascot.
Agree with you about Carravaggio on Sunday. Will be backing Signs of Blessing and Brando ew in the Prix Gheest. Brando bear the O'Brien horse fair and square at Newmarket and clocked some very impressive sectional times (fastest final 3f ever recorded over c & d) yet he's 10/1 here, have to get stuck into that as long as ground is ok.
To me Caravaggio is a good thing on Sunday.. Everything happened to fast for him lto on Newmarket's July Course, where the average time is 2 seconds faster than that at Ascot (1m.10.4--1m.12.4)
 The way Caravaggio finished off both those races screams of a horse wanting further, which he will get tomorrow (Deauville 6.5f average time 1m.16sec)  11/10 Hills NAP
A victory for form over reputation today, pk. 10/1 on Brando balances the books for the weekend and I know you're well ahead this week so hope you'll give me this one !

Last edited by certainty (2017-08-06 21:30:45)

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#17 2017-08-07 09:02:03

greatpilsudski
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Re: 3yo sprint form

Nothing more than Brando deserved ,he was cruising .

Despite missing the break Caravaggio made little headway and o Brien is talking about a rest now for him,that's if we ever see him race again that is.

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#18 2017-08-07 10:00:46

pk75
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Re: 3yo sprint form

certainty wrote:


pk75 wrote:


certainty wrote:


greatpilsudski wrote:


Can't remember a season where 3yo sprinters are doing so well and the nunthorpe looks a certainty he or Lady Aurelia will take that.





In contrast middle distance colts look average ,is something going on by the breeders that as made this happen? Did they prepare for the Commonwealth cup when it was announced or by running our 3yos in the guineas when that clearly aren't bred for it before the Commonwealth cup came along ruin them early on and made them less competitive when they finally returned to sprinting later on in the season?





Caravaggio runs in France on Sunday,he is the one though im least convinced about ,I can't see no reason why he couldn't clock a faster time at Ascot.
Agree with you about Carravaggio on Sunday. Will be backing Signs of Blessing and Brando ew in the Prix Gheest. Brando bear the O'Brien horse fair and square at Newmarket and clocked some very impressive sectional times (fastest final 3f ever recorded over c & d) yet he's 10/1 here, have to get stuck into that as long as ground is ok.
To me Caravaggio is a good thing on Sunday.. Everything happened to fast for him lto on Newmarket's July Course, where the average time is 2 seconds faster than that at Ascot (1m.10.4--1m.12.4)
 The way Caravaggio finished off both those races screams of a horse wanting further, which he will get tomorrow (Deauville 6.5f average time 1m.16sec)  11/10 Hills NAP
A victory for form over reputation today, pk. 10/1 on Brando balances the books for the weekend and I know you're well ahead this week so hope you'll give me this one !
Yeah good call certainty, read that sectional piece by Simon rowlands on Brando, but couldnt fancy him over the 6.5f trip, but was wrong as he saw it out very well.. Was not Caravaggio's true running tho imo, as he never travelling from the off.

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#19 2017-08-07 21:45:41

little rossi
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Re: 3yo sprint form

pk75 wrote:


certainty wrote:


pk75 wrote:


certainty wrote:


greatpilsudski wrote:


Can't remember a season where 3yo sprinters are doing so well and the nunthorpe looks a certainty he or Lady Aurelia will take that.






In contrast middle distance colts look average ,is something going on by the breeders that as made this happen? Did they prepare for the Commonwealth cup when it was announced or by running our 3yos in the guineas when that clearly aren't bred for it before the Commonwealth cup came along ruin them early on and made them less competitive when they finally returned to sprinting later on in the season?






Caravaggio runs in France on Sunday,he is the one though im least convinced about ,I can't see no reason why he couldn't clock a faster time at Ascot.
Agree with you about Carravaggio on Sunday. Will be backing Signs of Blessing and Brando ew in the Prix Gheest. Brando bear the O'Brien horse fair and square at Newmarket and clocked some very impressive sectional times (fastest final 3f ever recorded over c & d) yet he's 10/1 here, have to get stuck into that as long as ground is ok.
To me Caravaggio isa good thing on Sunday.. Everything happened to fast for him lto on Newmarket's July Course, where the average time is 2 seconds faster than that at Ascot (1m.10.4--1m.12.4)
The way Caravaggio finished off both those races screams of a horse wanting further, which he will get tomorrow (Deauville 6.5f average time 1m.16sec) 11/10 Hills NAP
A victory for form over reputation today, pk. 10/1 on Brando balances the books for the weekend and I know you're well ahead this week so hope you'll give me this one !
Yeah good call certainty, read that sectional piece by Simon rowlands on Brando, but couldnt fancy him over the 6.5f trip, but was wrong as he saw it out very well.. Was not Caravaggio's true running tho imo, as he never travelling from the off.


Has Carravagio EVER broke smartly have backed it the last 2 runs leaves itself way to much to do, K. Ryan's yard were flying end of last week & weekend, someone off Oddschecker tipped Acclaim e/ way at 33's, as for the Nunthorpe hope the ground remains no worse than good so we get to see a decent competitive race think Lady Aurelia & Battash clash will be one to look forward to York spent loads on new drainage system 2 years ago let's hope it's working well, nice call on Brando pk.

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#20 2017-08-12 16:51:34

greatpilsudski
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Re: 3yo sprint form

i think this is irelands first group race for 3yo and older sprinters tomorrow ,5 3yos verse 6 older horses.


they make intelligent cross 2nd fav but koropick is 11-1 and hes already beat older sprinters.


you can forgive lto as it was soft but he came 2nd to battaash on gdfm time before.looks a big price to me

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#21 2017-08-12 19:51:54

certainty
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Re: 3yo sprint form

greatpilsudski wrote:


i think this is irelands first group race for 3yo and older sprinters tomorrow ,5 3yos verse 6 older horses.


they make intelligent cross 2nd fav but koropick is 11-1 and hes already beat older sprinters.


you can forgive lto as it was soft but he came 2nd to battaash on gdfm time before.looks a big price to me
Good luck with that mate, the form of his win at Newcastle has had a few boosts as well. Would be slightly worried about Jo Gordon on board, a good rider but only had three rides ever in Ireland and never at Curragh and she's up against Moore and all the top Irish lads.

At the prices I quite like Mr Scarlet, another 3yo. Was 80/1 when 5th in the Commonwealth Cup but didn't look like a fluke and was third in Group 3 before that at 25/1. Maybe overlooked coming from small stable but Pat Smullen on board and not a bad ew shout I reckon.

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#22 2017-08-13 13:42:44

greatpilsudski
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Re: 3yo sprint form

certainty wrote:


greatpilsudski wrote:


i think this is irelands first group race for 3yo and older sprinters tomorrow ,5 3yos verse 6 older horses.


they make intelligent cross 2nd fav but koropick is 11-1 and hes already beat older sprinters.


you can forgive lto as it was soft but he came 2nd to battaash on gdfm time before.looks a big price to me
Good luck with that mate, the form of his win at Newcastle has had a few boosts as well. Would be slightly worried about Jo Gordon on board, a good rider but only had three rides ever in Ireland and never at Curragh and she's up against Moore and all the top Irish lads.

At the prices I quite like Mr Scarlet, another 3yo. Was 80/1 when 5th in the Commonwealth Cup but didn't look like a fluke and was third in Group 3 before that at 25/1. Maybe overlooked coming from small stable but Pat Smullen on board and not a bad ew shout I reckon.


the commonwealth cup form is not looking good,bar harrys angel who burnt himself out in duelling for the early lead,think ive found one winner from the rest a class 3 hcap win.


it represented here by mr scarlett and intellgient cross so we shall see

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