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#1 2017-01-11 00:47:33

quixalcrosset
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Join Date: 2009-08-08
Posts: 700

Wind operations included in form?

I broached this subject not too long ago and today there was an example of a horse winning and turning form around to the tune of over 28 lengths.The horse was returning only 51 days from his previous run against the horse that beat him and comprehensively turned the form around.


How many of you knew that Missed Approach had had a wind operation since being thrashed by Label Des Obeaux? I would guess very few if any at all.This is something that I think should be included in the racecard,even if only for the horses first run following the operation,I am of the opinion the same should be true for horses that have been gelded or mares running in foal.


It would not be any more difficult to include than 1st time blinkers etc.


On the subject of horses suffering from wind problems (at the front end),Tango had a go at slagging me off again when molerats tip was pulled up and I reported that it was suspected he may have a wind problem.


In his rant he went on about why was'nt the horse scoped.The fact is that routine scoping is unlikely to identify the two most common causes i.e Dorsal Displacement of the Soft Palate or paralysis of the Arytenoid Cartilage..


In the case of the soft palate the problem only occurs when the horse is put under pressure,therefore the trainer is unlikely to know either before the horse struggles for no apparent reason during a race or if the horse was worked at full capacity as it would be in an actual race.(As suspected in molerats tip POST RACE but not before) The only way to diagnose the problem is for the horse to have an endoscopy whilst running on a treadmill.A routine scope is primarily for an examination of the horses lungs and bears little relation to the endoscopy described.


It is generally the jockey who will highlight the problem if the horse has not shown the problem on the gallops and generally Post Race.


The first problem is often reported as(wrongly) the horse swallowing its tongue.,In the second case usually caused by one or both Arytenoid Cartilages being paralysed.This is easier to identify by a scope.In both cases there are relatively simple operations to rectify the problem although in the second example Hobdaying is an extreme solution.Basically a hole cut in the horse windpipe to bypass the cartilages.Generally the cartilages are "tied back",sutured in place so that they are permanently open.


To give you an idea how common the problem can be in the case of Arytenoid Cartilage paralysis,a survey of more than 400 yearlings showed that 1 in 4 had a problem.So imo a wind op is something we should be made aware of before a horse runs its first race Post OP.Cue Card is a high profile example of the difference it can make and Missed Approach a perfect example.


Any thoughts or opinions about inclusion of wind ops,gelding or in foal being included in the form at least for the horses 1st race post op?

Last edited by quixalcrosset (2017-01-11 01:20:40)

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#2 2017-01-11 01:01:14

quixalcrosset
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Join Date: 2009-08-08
Posts: 700

Re: Wind operations included in form?

BTW just in case you missed it.Tango's comments were along the lines of "A simple scope etc etc and more than a tongue tie will be needed to get this donkey into the winners enclosure..As should be apparent ,a "simple scope" is not relevant.


At this time I do not know if the horse will have an operation or wear a tongue tie in his next race,if I hear I will let you know.One thing is for sure the horse is much better than you have seen so far.


He has no entries at this time but just in case I forget or can't post an update the horse is called Blakerigg,keep an eye out for him.

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#3 2017-01-11 10:41:48

Re: Wind operations included in form?

Quixall,this was in the weekender Warren Greatrex straight from the stable last week,


"He was favourite first time out at Exeter,but he ran a lifeless race and we found he had an issue with his breathing.We've had that sorted out and he seems in great order again now.He goes to Lingfield on thursday (abandoned) and judged on his homework he ought to run a huge race.


Okay,it was a few days later but the favourite Label Des Obeaux was a 6-1 shot in the Exeter race so I thought the Greatrex gelding was the value anyway.


Breathing operations/tinkering with their wind ?,I would have to fancy their chances to back them regardless of any operations.

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#4 2017-01-11 10:52:55

ubik
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Join Date: 2015-03-05
Posts: 3282

Re: Wind operations included in form?

quixalcrosset wrote:


I broached this subject not too long ago and today there was an example of a horse winning and turning form around to the tune of over 28 lengths.The horse was returning only 51 days from his previous run against the horse that beat him and comprehensively turned the form around.


How many of you knew that Missed Approach had had a wind operation since being thrashed by Label Des Obeaux? I would guess very few if any at all.This is something that I think should be included in the racecard,even if only for the horses first run following the operation,I am of the opinion the same should be true for horses that have been gelded or mares running in foal.


It would not be any more difficult to include than 1st time blinkers etc.


On the subject of horses suffering from wind problems (at the front end),Tango had a go at slagging me off again when molerats tip was pulled up and I reported that it was suspected he may have a wind problem.


In his rant he went on about why was'nt the horse scoped.The fact is that routine scoping is unlikely to identify the two most common causes i.e Dorsal Displacement of the Soft Palate or paralysis of the Arytenoid Cartilage..


In the case of the soft palate the problem only occurs when the horse is put under pressure,therefore the trainer is unlikely to know either before the horse struggles for no apparent reason during a race or if the horse was worked at full capacity as it would be in an actual race.(As suspected in molerats tip POST RACE but not before) The only way to diagnose the problem is for the horse to have an endoscopy whilst running on a treadmill.A routine scope is primarily for an examination of the horses lungs and bears little relation to the endoscopy described.


It is generally the jockey who will highlight the problem if the horse has not shown the problem on the gallops and generally Post Race.


The first problem is often reported as(wrongly) the horse swallowing its tongue.,In the second case usually caused by one or both Arytenoid Cartilages being paralysed.This is easier to identify by a scope.In both cases there are relatively simple operations to rectify the problem although in the second example Hobdaying is an extreme solution.Basically a hole cut in the horse windpipe to bypass the cartilages.Generally the cartilages are "tied back",sutured in place so that they are permanently open.


To give you an idea how common the problem can be in the case of Arytenoid Cartilage paralysis,a survey of more than 400 yearlings showed that 1 in 4 had a problem.So imo a wind op is something we should be made aware of before a horse runs its first race Post OP.Cue Card is a high profile example of the difference it can make and Missed Approach a perfect example.


Any thoughts or opinions about inclusion of wind ops,gelding or in foal being included in the form at least for the horses 1st race post op?




I agree, it is dodgy practice not to let people know, I cant find it now, but i saw a comment online how a 20-1 horse was entered and mins before the race the owner let it be known that the op had been done, money flew in for it and it won. So lucky folk who got on at 20-1 were laughing, but many werent

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#5 2017-01-11 18:34:48

bzerk59
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Join Date: 2010-03-02
Posts: 35

Re: Wind operations included in form?

I total agree wind operation should be include in race form the mount of winners having wind operation and you get to know about it  after the race

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#6 2017-01-11 21:46:00

tango
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Join Date: 2010-07-31
Posts: 5988

Re: Wind operations included in form?




  I dont think its anybodys business but the owners and the trainer, its their animal their call and their money,  
  Its still the same horse only they have helped him to run to his full potential, 


  My friends horse won a bumper, then under performed for years, a change of yards was called for and after a trot in the yard the new trainer had a look in his mouth discovering two ingrown molars, which would obviously have affected him when eating and running, they were removed it turned him inside out, and he won three of his next four , 
  Do people want horse dental records now ?

Last edited by tango (2017-01-11 21:46:55)

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#7 2017-01-11 22:06:20

tango
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Join Date: 2010-07-31
Posts: 5988

Re: Wind operations included in form?

quixalcrosset wrote:


BTW just in case you missed it.Tango's comments were along the lines of "A simple scope etc etc and more than a tongue tie will be needed to get this donkey into the winners enclosure..As should be apparent ,a "simple scope" is not relevant.


At this time I do not know if the horse will have an operation or wear a tongue tie in his next race,if I hear I will let you know.One thing is for sure the horse is much better than you have seen so far.


He has no entries at this time but just in case I forget or can't post an update the horse is called Blakerigg,keep an eye out for him.


  Some very selective quotes there, you left out the part about your mate having ridden him several times, i asked why he had not notices anything on the gallops, as they had just made it around the first corner of the race when the distress signs were shown and anyone who backed it knew their fate, 

  There is more than a wind problem if he is in trouble that early, they were just doing a light canter, 

  There is always the chance they were handicapping him on his third run, as he did seem to recover quite well after his wobble spell, before fading out,, and he was held up rather than rode prominently as your source had suggested,  he was also pretty friendless in the live show despite being sent off FAV ,

 Anyway it will be interesting to watch his next race, plenty on here will back him but not me, well maybe in running after the first half mile, 

Last edited by tango (2017-01-11 22:14:56)

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#8 2017-01-12 00:37:43

quixalcrosset
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Join Date: 2009-08-08
Posts: 700

Re: Wind operations included in form?

tango wrote:


quixalcrosset wrote:


BTW just in case you missed it.Tango's comments were along the lines of "A simple scope etc etc and more than a tongue tie will be needed to get this donkey into the winners enclosure..As should be apparent ,a "simple scope" is not relevant.


At this time I do not know if the horse will have an operation or wear a tongue tie in his next race,if I hear I will let you know.One thing is for sure the horse is much better than you have seen so far.


He has no entries at this time but just in case I forget or can't post an update the horse is called Blakerigg,keep an eye out for him.


  Some very selective quotes there, you left out the part about your mate having ridden him several times, i asked why he had not notices anything on the gallops, as they had just made it around the first corner of the race when the distress signs were shown and anyone who backed it knew their fate, 

  There is more than a wind problem if he is in trouble that early, they were just doing a light canter, 

  There is always the chance they were handicapping him on his third run, as he did seem to recover quite well after his wobble spell, before fading out,, and he was held up rather than rode prominently as your source had suggested,  he was also pretty friendless in the live show despite being sent off FAV ,

 Anyway it will be interesting to watch his next race, plenty on here will back him but not me, well maybe in running after the first half mile, 
I wasn't being selective Tango,neither was I having a go at you.I did not mention that molerat had ridden the horse as I thought the salient point was that the problem does not always show up during routine work and why it is usually the jockey who notices it during a race.I have no idea what problem the horse has and will not know until and if the molerat tells me.No doubt the trainer and his vet will have an idea,whether they make it public visa vi the problem and solution before molerat gets to know is something we will have to wait and see.Assuming he does have a problem with his breathing no doubt they will rectify it in whatever way is required.They may try a simple tongue tie although according to equine vets there is no evidence to suggest that this is effective for either problem mentioned above.Time will tell whether the horse is as good as molerat thinks but anyone with a brain knows that nobody can predict what will happen when horses jump off in a race,it is caveat emptor every time we place a bet no matter how well prepared or how high expectations are from those that know.You say that you did your followers a favour telling them not to back him but the simple fact is it was just another case of ridicule and you guessed lucky.How many PMs did you get when Crievehill won the other day from those who were put off backing him because of your previous comments,cost them a 7/1 or 6/1 sp winner? I could not care less what you say but unfounded claims and blatant lies do little to encourage others to put their views up.It damages the forum and plenty of decent people have stopped contributing because of unwarranted abuse,not just from you.Thankfully most of the trolls seem to have left the forum alone and it is only really you who resorts to ridicule.You still had a go at Saxonbody after it was pointed out that you were wrong about B365s Guaranteed Odds plus.You claimed that you had put him right when in fact you had not got a clue and told him he should learn to read the full message.The guy only wanted advice and he got it from decent forumites,you came on and abused him and wrote a complete load of nonsense which proved you were the one who was clueless about what he had asked.I suggest you go back and read the whole thread and then if you have any decency apologise to him? You seem to take great delight in ridicule when in fact you are the one being laughed at.Stick to facts and by all means get into a debate if you can back up your arguments,otherwise just leave decent threads well alone.If you like I can ridicule you with simple facts just by bumping a thread or two e.g your recent ridicule of peoples ante post bets and your claim that you wait until NRNB,ring any bells? It should and just to give you something to chew on why dont you give us a list of all these winning naps along with any losers from say the beginning of Dec 2015,just to keep it simple for you.You dont have to list every horse you ever mentioned whether a winner or loser,just the ones you claim to have napped and recommended to the forum.In return I will do the same and name as many bets as I can find that I have recommended as bets. posted as new topics so the whole forum could see.These are the only ones I consider as having been recommendations from me,any mentioned in other threads are just conversations even though there are more winners than losers.Show us yours and I will show you mine then the forum can decide who they should be listening to? RSVP

Last edited by quixalcrosset (2017-01-12 00:56:46)

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#9 2017-01-12 15:29:50

tango
Forum Pro
Join Date: 2010-07-31
Posts: 5988

Re: Wind operations included in form?

quixalcrosset wrote:


tango wrote:


quixalcrosset wrote:


BTW just in case you missed it.Tango's comments were along the lines of "A simple scope etc etc and more than a tongue tie will be needed to get this donkey into the winners enclosure..As should be apparent ,a "simple scope" is not relevant.


At this time I do not know if the horse will have an operation or wear a tongue tie in his next race,if I hear I will let you know.One thing is for sure the horse is much better than you have seen so far.


He has no entries at this time but just in case I forget or can't post an update the horse is called Blakerigg,keep an eye out for him.


  Some very selective quotes there, you left out the part about your mate having ridden him several times, i asked why he had not notices anything on the gallops, as they had just made it around the first corner of the race when the distress signs were shown and anyone who backed it knew their fate, 

  There is more than a wind problem if he is in trouble that early, they were just doing a light canter, 

  There is always the chance they were handicapping him on his third run, as he did seem to recover quite well after his wobble spell, before fading out,, and he was held up rather than rode prominently as your source had suggested,  he was also pretty friendless in the live show despite being sent off FAV ,

 Anyway it will be interesting to watch his next race, plenty on here will back him but not me, well maybe in running after the first half mile, 
I wasn't being selective Tango,neither was I having a go at you.I did not mention that molerat had ridden the horse as I thought the salient point was that the problem does not always show up during routine work and why it is usually the jockey who notices it during a race.I have no idea what problem the horse has and will not know until and if the molerat tells me.No doubt the trainer and his vet will have an idea,whether they make it public visa vi the problem and solution before molerat gets to know is something we will have to wait and see.Assuming he does have a problem with his breathing no doubt they will rectify it in whatever way is required.They may try a simple tongue tie although according to equine vets there is no evidence to suggest that this is effective for either problem mentioned above.Time will tell whether the horse is as good as molerat thinks but anyone with a brain knows that nobody can predict what will happen when horses jump off in a race,it is caveat emptor every time we place a bet no matter how well prepared or how high expectations are from those that know.You say that you did your followers a favour telling them not to back him but the simple fact is it was just another case of ridicule and you guessed lucky.How many PMs did you get when Crievehill won the other day from those who were put off backing him because of your previous comments,cost them a 7/1 or 6/1 sp winner? I could not care less what you say but unfounded claims and blatant lies do little to encourage others to put their views up.It damages the forum and plenty of decent people have stopped contributing because of unwarranted abuse,not just from you.Thankfully most of the trolls seem to have left the forum alone and it is only really you who resorts to ridicule.You still had a go at Saxonbody after it was pointed out that you were wrong about B365s Guaranteed Odds plus.You claimed that you had put him right when in fact you had not got a clue and told him he should learn to read the full message.The guy only wanted advice and he got it from decent forumites,you came on and abused him and wrote a complete load of nonsense which proved you were the one who was clueless about what he had asked.I suggest you go back and read the whole thread and then if you have any decency apologise to him? You seem to take great delight in ridicule when in fact you are the one being laughed at.Stick to facts and by all means get into a debate if you can back up your arguments,otherwise just leave decent threads well alone.If you like I can ridicule you with simple facts just by bumping a thread or two e.g your recent ridicule of peoples ante post bets and your claim that you wait until NRNB,ring any bells? It should and just to give you something to chew on why dont you give us a list of all these winning naps along with any losers from say the beginning of Dec 2015,just to keep it simple for you.You dont have to list every horse you ever mentioned whether a winner or loser,just the ones you claim to have napped and recommended to the forum.In return I will do the same and name as many bets as I can find that I have recommended as bets. posted as new topics so the whole forum could see.These are the only ones I consider as having been recommendations from me,any mentioned in other threads are just conversations even though there are more winners than losers.Show us yours and I will show you mine then the forum can decide who they should be listening to? RSVP




    Sorry cant read this , use paragraphs please, seems like someone else could do with a wind op though, 

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#10 2017-01-12 16:28:25

knockando
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Join Date: 2014-07-17
Posts: 2326

Re: Wind operations included in form?

Don't really want to get involved particularly lads, but can we not just leave it out on here and agree to disagree respectivel as these arguments help no one. 


Quixal - keep putting up tips and info. Tango - keep putting up your tips too, let people decide for themselves if they want to back it on faith or not. 


Cheers, let's have a decent 2017 and remember - it's all about us as a forum collectively against the bastards - not forum member against forum member. 



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#11 2017-01-12 17:15:30

eachwayed
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Join Date: 2015-10-06
Posts: 841

Re: Wind operations included in form?

knockando wrote:


Don't really want to get involved particularly lads, but can we not just leave it out on here and agree to disagree respectivel as these arguments help no one. 


Quixal - keep putting up tips and info. Tango - keep putting up your tips too, let people decide for themselves if they want to back it on faith or not. 


Cheers, let's have a decent 2017 and remember - it's all about us as a forum collectively against the bastards - not forum member against forum member. 




Well said knockando, I always read tips by tango and quixall as they both clearly know their stuff, but this sniping is just tiresome and I'm sure it puts others off using the forum so we all potentially lose out on good info or tips. Peace !

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#12 2017-01-12 18:46:14

quixalcrosset
Forum Pro
Join Date: 2009-08-08
Posts: 700

Re: Wind operations included in form?

tango wrote:


quixalcrosset wrote:


tango wrote:


quixalcrosset wrote:


BTW just in case you missed it.Tango's comments were along the lines of "A simple scope etc etc and more than a tongue tie will be needed to get this donkey into the winners enclosure..As should be apparent ,a "simple scope" is not relevant.


At this time I do not know if the horse will have an operation or wear a tongue tie in his next race,if I hear I will let you know.One thing is for sure the horse is much better than you have seen so far.


He has no entries at this time but just in case I forget or can't post an update the horse is called Blakerigg,keep an eye out for him.


  Some very selective quotes there, you left out the part about your mate having ridden him several times, i asked why he had not notices anything on the gallops, as they had just made it around the first corner of the race when the distress signs were shown and anyone who backed it knew their fate, 

  There is more than a wind problem if he is in trouble that early, they were just doing a light canter, 

  There is always the chance they were handicapping him on his third run, as he did seem to recover quite well after his wobble spell, before fading out,, and he was held up rather than rode prominently as your source had suggested,  he was also pretty friendless in the live show despite being sent off FAV ,

 Anyway it will be interesting to watch his next race, plenty on here will back him but not me, well maybe in running after the first half mile, 
I wasn't being selective Tango,neither was I having a go at you.I did not mention that molerat had ridden the horse as I thought the salient point was that the problem does not always show up during routine work and why it is usually the jockey who notices it during a race.I have no idea what problem the horse has and will not know until and if the molerat tells me.No doubt the trainer and his vet will have an idea,whether they make it public visa vi the problem and solution before molerat gets to know is something we will have to wait and see.Assuming he does have a problem with his breathing no doubt they will rectify it in whatever way is required.They may try a simple tongue tie although according to equine vets there is no evidence to suggest that this is effective for either problem mentioned above.Time will tell whether the horse is as good as molerat thinks but anyone with a brain knows that nobody can predict what will happen when horses jump off in a race,it is caveat emptor every time we place a bet no matter how well prepared or how high expectations are from those that know.You say that you did your followers a favour telling them not to back him but the simple fact is it was just another case of ridicule and you guessed lucky.How many PMs did you get when Crievehill won the other day from those who were put off backing him because of your previous comments,cost them a 7/1 or 6/1 sp winner? I could not care less what you say but unfounded claims and blatant lies do little to encourage others to put their views up.It damages the forum and plenty of decent people have stopped contributing because of unwarranted abuse,not just from you.Thankfully most of the trolls seem to have left the forum alone and it is only really you who resorts to ridicule.You still had a go at Saxonbody after it was pointed out that you were wrong about B365s Guaranteed Odds plus.You claimed that you had put him right when in fact you had not got a clue and told him he should learn to read the full message.The guy only wanted advice and he got it from decent forumites,you came on and abused him and wrote a complete load of nonsense which proved you were the one who was clueless about what he had asked.I suggest you go back and read the whole thread and then if you have any decency apologise to him? You seem to take great delight in ridicule when in fact you are the one being laughed at.Stick to facts and by all means get into a debate if you can back up your arguments,otherwise just leave decent threads well alone.If you like I can ridicule you with simple facts just by bumping a thread or two e.g your recent ridicule of peoples ante post bets and your claim that you wait until NRNB,ring any bells? It should and just to give you something to chew on why dont you give us a list of all these winning naps along with any losers from say the beginning of Dec 2015,just to keep it simple for you.You dont have to list every horse you ever mentioned whether a winner or loser,just the ones you claim to have napped and recommended to the forum.In return I will do the same and name as many bets as I can find that I have recommended as bets. posted as new topics so the whole forum could see.These are the only ones I consider as having been recommendations from me,any mentioned in other threads are just conversations even though there are more winners than losers.Show us yours and I will show you mine then the forum can decide who they should be listening to? RSVP




    Sorry cant read this , use paragraphs please, seems like someone else could do with a wind op though, 
No surprise that you can't read Tango.To make it simple Explain yourself,why you thrive on ridicule and  refuse to acknowledge you were wrong in attacking Saxon? Put up your claims in one post and let the forum see your genius at work? Simple and as far as sniping goes eachwayed and knockando et al can rest assured all I want to see is a forum free of personal abuse,no more no less.

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#13 2017-01-12 19:13:22

tango
Forum Pro
Join Date: 2010-07-31
Posts: 5988

Re: Wind operations included in form?

quixalcrosset wrote:


tango wrote:


quixalcrosset wrote:


tango wrote:


quixalcrosset wrote:


BTW just in case you missed it.Tango's comments were along the lines of "A simple scope etc etc and more than a tongue tie will be needed to get this donkey into the winners enclosure..As should be apparent ,a "simple scope" is not relevant.


At this time I do not know if the horse will have an operation or wear a tongue tie in his next race,if I hear I will let you know.One thing is for sure the horse is much better than you have seen so far.


He has no entries at this time but just in case I forget or can't post an update the horse is called Blakerigg,keep an eye out for him.


  Some very selective quotes there, you left out the part about your mate having ridden him several times, i asked why he had not notices anything on the gallops, as they had just made it around the first corner of the race when the distress signs were shown and anyone who backed it knew their fate, 

  There is more than a wind problem if he is in trouble that early, they were just doing a light canter, 

  There is always the chance they were handicapping him on his third run, as he did seem to recover quite well after his wobble spell, before fading out,, and he was held up rather than rode prominently as your source had suggested,  he was also pretty friendless in the live show despite being sent off FAV ,

 Anyway it will be interesting to watch his next race, plenty on here will back him but not me, well maybe in running after the first half mile, 
I wasn't being selective Tango,neither was I having a go at you.I did not mention that molerat had ridden the horse as I thought the salient point was that the problem does not always show up during routine work and why it is usually the jockey who notices it during a race.I have no idea what problem the horse has and will not know until and if the molerat tells me.No doubt the trainer and his vet will have an idea,whether they make it public visa vi the problem and solution before molerat gets to know is something we will have to wait and see.Assuming he does have a problem with his breathing no doubt they will rectify it in whatever way is required.They may try a simple tongue tie although according to equine vets there is no evidence to suggest that this is effective for either problem mentioned above.Time will tell whether the horse is as good as molerat thinks but anyone with a brain knows that nobody can predict what will happen when horses jump off in a race,it is caveat emptor every time we place a bet no matter how well prepared or how high expectations are from those that know.You say that you did your followers a favour telling them not to back him but the simple fact is it was just another case of ridicule and you guessed lucky.How many PMs did you get when Crievehill won the other day from those who were put off backing him because of your previous comments,cost them a 7/1 or 6/1 sp winner? I could not care less what you say but unfounded claims and blatant lies do little to encourage others to put their views up.It damages the forum and plenty of decent people have stopped contributing because of unwarranted abuse,not just from you.Thankfully most of the trolls seem to have left the forum alone and it is only really you who resorts to ridicule.You still had a go at Saxonbody after it was pointed out that you were wrong about B365s Guaranteed Odds plus.You claimed that you had put him right when in fact you had not got a clue and told him he should learn to read the full message.The guy only wanted advice and he got it from decent forumites,you came on and abused him and wrote a complete load of nonsense which proved you were the one who was clueless about what he had asked.I suggest you go back and read the whole thread and then if you have any decency apologise to him? You seem to take great delight in ridicule when in fact you are the one being laughed at.Stick to facts and by all means get into a debate if you can back up your arguments,otherwise just leave decent threads well alone.If you like I can ridicule you with simple facts just by bumping a thread or two e.g your recent ridicule of peoples ante post bets and your claim that you wait until NRNB,ring any bells? It should and just to give you something to chew on why dont you give us a list of all these winning naps along with any losers from say the beginning of Dec 2015,just to keep it simple for you.You dont have to list every horse you ever mentioned whether a winner or loser,just the ones you claim to have napped and recommended to the forum.In return I will do the same and name as many bets as I can find that I have recommended as bets. posted as new topics so the whole forum could see.These are the only ones I consider as having been recommendations from me,any mentioned in other threads are just conversations even though there are more winners than losers.Show us yours and I will show you mine then the forum can decide who they should be listening to? RSVP




    Sorry cant read this , use paragraphs please, seems like someone else could do with a wind op though, 
No surprise that you can't read Tango.To make it simple Explain yourself,why you thrive on ridicule and  refuse to acknowledge you were wrong in attacking Saxon? Put up your claims in one post and let the forum see your genius at work? Simple and as far as sniping goes eachwayed and knockando et al can rest assured all I want to see is a forum free of personal abuse,no more no less.


  I think you have a crush on me quix, get yourself a girlfriend and a life, 

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#14 2017-01-12 19:16:57

quixalcrosset
Forum Pro
Join Date: 2009-08-08
Posts: 700

Re: Wind operations included in form?

tango wrote:


quixalcrosset wrote:


tango wrote:


quixalcrosset wrote:


tango wrote:


quixalcrosset wrote:


BTW just in case you missed it.Tango's comments were along the lines of "A simple scope etc etc and more than a tongue tie will be needed to get this donkey into the winners enclosure..As should be apparent ,a "simple scope" is not relevant.


At this time I do not know if the horse will have an operation or wear a tongue tie in his next race,if I hear I will let you know.One thing is for sure the horse is much better than you have seen so far.


He has no entries at this time but just in case I forget or can't post an update the horse is called Blakerigg,keep an eye out for him.


  Some very selective quotes there, you left out the part about your mate having ridden him several times, i asked why he had not notices anything on the gallops, as they had just made it around the first corner of the race when the distress signs were shown and anyone who backed it knew their fate, 

  There is more than a wind problem if he is in trouble that early, they were just doing a light canter, 

  There is always the chance they were handicapping him on his third run, as he did seem to recover quite well after his wobble spell, before fading out,, and he was held up rather than rode prominently as your source had suggested,  he was also pretty friendless in the live show despite being sent off FAV ,

 Anyway it will be interesting to watch his next race, plenty on here will back him but not me, well maybe in running after the first half mile, 
I wasn't being selective Tango,neither was I having a go at you.I did not mention that molerat had ridden the horse as I thought the salient point was that the problem does not always show up during routine work and why it is usually the jockey who notices it during a race.I have no idea what problem the horse has and will not know until and if the molerat tells me.No doubt the trainer and his vet will have an idea,whether they make it public visa vi the problem and solution before molerat gets to know is something we will have to wait and see.Assuming he does have a problem with his breathing no doubt they will rectify it in whatever way is required.They may try a simple tongue tie although according to equine vets there is no evidence to suggest that this is effective for either problem mentioned above.Time will tell whether the horse is as good as molerat thinks but anyone with a brain knows that nobody can predict what will happen when horses jump off in a race,it is caveat emptor every time we place a bet no matter how well prepared or how high expectations are from those that know.You say that you did your followers a favour telling them not to back him but the simple fact is it was just another case of ridicule and you guessed lucky.How many PMs did you get when Crievehill won the other day from those who were put off backing him because of your previous comments,cost them a 7/1 or 6/1 sp winner? I could not care less what you say but unfounded claims and blatant lies do little to encourage others to put their views up.It damages the forum and plenty of decent people have stopped contributing because of unwarranted abuse,not just from you.Thankfully most of the trolls seem to have left the forum alone and it is only really you who resorts to ridicule.You still had a go at Saxonbody after it was pointed out that you were wrong about B365s Guaranteed Odds plus.You claimed that you had put him right when in fact you had not got a clue and told him he should learn to read the full message.The guy only wanted advice and he got it from decent forumites,you came on and abused him and wrote a complete load of nonsense which proved you were the one who was clueless about what he had asked.I suggest you go back and read the whole thread and then if you have any decency apologise to him? You seem to take great delight in ridicule when in fact you are the one being laughed at.Stick to facts and by all means get into a debate if you can back up your arguments,otherwise just leave decent threads well alone.If you like I can ridicule you with simple facts just by bumping a thread or two e.g your recent ridicule of peoples ante post bets and your claim that you wait until NRNB,ring any bells? It should and just to give you something to chew on why dont you give us a list of all these winning naps along with any losers from say the beginning of Dec 2015,just to keep it simple for you.You dont have to list every horse you ever mentioned whether a winner or loser,just the ones you claim to have napped and recommended to the forum.In return I will do the same and name as many bets as I can find that I have recommended as bets. posted as new topics so the whole forum could see.These are the only ones I consider as having been recommendations from me,any mentioned in other threads are just conversations even though there are more winners than losers.Show us yours and I will show you mine then the forum can decide who they should be listening to? RSVP




    Sorry cant read this , use paragraphs please, seems like someone else could do with a wind op though, 
No surprise that you can't read Tango.To make it simple Explain yourself,why you thrive on ridicule and  refuse to acknowledge you were wrong in attacking Saxon? Put up your claims in one post and let the forum see your genius at work? Simple and as far as sniping goes eachwayed and knockando et al can rest assured all I want to see is a forum free of personal abuse,no more no less.


  I think you have a crush on me quix, get yourself a girlfriend and a life, 
I rest my case FORUM?

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